We speak with Trische’ Duckworth of Survivors Speak. We have a conversation about policing and the work that Survivors Speak does.
Visit the Survivors Speak website to learn about the upcoming events she mentions: https://www.survivorsspeak.info/
During the course of the episode, we talked about a lot of related issues.
Other organizations that she mentions working with, who are doing good work:
Washtenaw My Brothers Keeper: https://wmbk.org/
Ypsi Can I Share: https://www.ypsicanishare.com/
Poor People’s Campaign of Washtenaw County: https://www.facebook.com/ppcwc/
Interfaith Coalition for Peace and Justice (ICPJ): https://www.icpj.org/
HR 7085, the Ending Qualified Immunity Act (federal level). It failed, but information about it is here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/7085
Breathe Act: https://breatheact.org/
We also talk about holding local politicians accountable for actions that perpetuate racism. Trische’ mentions the “Chickengate” incident. Find out more about that here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnnArbor/comments/ghfvdy/three_ann_arbor_city_council_members_mock_housing/
Transcript
MH: hi and welcome to this episode of Ann arbor af a podcast for people trying to figure out what’s going on in Ann arbor we discuss current events in local politics and policy governance and other civic good times i’m Michele Hughes my pronouns are she her.
MK: I’m MK and my pronouns are she her.
MH: And today, we are talking with tricia duckworth from survivors speak. So we’re at where your co host and we’re getting here to help you get informed and get involved it’s your city so yes, true say duckworth from survivors speak.
TD: Hello Hello everyone.
MH: How are you doing. So yeah, I guess, maybe i’ll start with the question of but I started with before I first heard about you guys when you organized a protest in at the washtenaw county sheriff’s office after they were after they were had done some brutality against person entertainer grady and that was the first time I had heard of your organization, but I understand you go further back than that and have larger goals than that kind of thing you’ve been organizing protests all around the state, it seems like protests and then also like i’ve seen you’ve had a group you had a meeting of like just talking about racism together and things like that tell us tell us about your work let’s do it, what do you guys been doing what you’ve been doing lately, what are you planning to do go.
TD: Alright, well, first of all. Thank you so much to you, Michelle and Molly for having us on. As stated my name is she shaved off or from the executive director and founder of virus speak.
So virus being basically our mission is to amplify the voice of an individual Community or an injustice a taboo topic we do this by way of the arts community conversations or any other creative platform that we deem necessary to sound the alarm protest, being one and, as I was telling you earlier, you know people say all the time, oh this new Buddhist path to protest.
Like no we’re not a new group, you know, but we are a route that is about justice and we believe that when there is an injustice that people need to come together use their voices to sound the alarm. Not just to shine a light on the injustice, but to bring justice to that situation and so that’s why we were called out with the great heels, because what we seen happening, we knew was unjust and we had to come together to fight.
MK: yeah.
TD: I think.
MK: Thank you so much for being here today to talk to us. I. So one thing that i’ve been thinking about as I’ve been hearing a lot about us in terms of moving beyond policing and thinking about different ways to achieve safety and to achieve justice, I feel like i’ve been hearing a lot about restorative justice, and I wonder if that’s been a part of the work that you’ve been doing or how you see that see potential for that in our Community.
TD: Believe that i’m one and i’ve never been i’ve never ever ever said define the police until you know this summer just started looking at things I may yes definitely i’m wanting to hopefully accountable and wanting to make sure that they don’t have military weapons and things of this nature. But I didn’t really start to take a look at it until the summer and looking at it through the eyes of some of my abolitionists brothers, sisters right. And, seeing that wow maybe there does need to be some type of the funding right that puts a puts money into programs that will uplift the Community right when we think about urban communities across the country, we see a common theme and it’s poverty right, so what would that look like if we really tackle the problem really which is poverty. Then, that would decrease so many of the other barriers, and so I truly believe that there are things that we can do to minimize police presence and bring about an uplifting to the Community like we’ve never seen.That sounds great.
MH: yeah. So um I don’t know I mean is that is that something that you’re advocating for now in what you do, or just have that as a focus or as a goal. I think we will leave that to those that are already advocating.
TD: If that comes up in conversation, or what we do, or we, the Group it’ll be something that we revisit at that time as you can probably tell i’m not sure if you guys were able to be a part of our forum, are you an activist what’s your role in this justice fight. We believe that everybody has a role right, but we also understand that everybody cannot do everything right, so what we tell people is that we have to join together right with the groups that are working in their area they were their area we work on when we come together and support where we can. This means that we can tackle this demon of racism and white supremacy from many different angles, because there’s not just one approach right there’s, not just in a lot of people think that all this great plan and racism will feel is that great of a plan i’m sure race right now.
MH: One thing you can do.
TD: It right there’s definitely not one thing that you can do, so we are now moving towards honoring the work of individuals up finding ways that we can uplift also sticking true to what we are currently doing.In this fight.
MH: Yeah so tell us, I guess what i’m what kind of things you have been working on and what kind of things, you will be working on I don’t know if you wanted to be maybe even talk a little bit more about the standard radio thing is because we brought it up.
TD: Oh, my goodness. i’m fine alarming i’ll say because there’s still no resolved right and we see that the Attorney general’s office has moved to charge degree which I don’t understand. I mean when I do understand when you look at the big scheme of things, how they do and how they seek to place blame on systems and we, the people instead of taking ownership right i’m so of course they will blame the great deals, but we all understood, and we all seen that video we seen that officer rush in like a cowboy right in less than 60 seconds, because I counted they had the gradient family unlawfully detained, you do not woman up and toss a woman around like a rag doll and then expect her husband to just stand there and watch as you pummel and beat her like no that’s not that’s not the Community with that we believe me so even when you said about you know community policing and defending the police. We believe that there could have been Community members that could have stepped in at that time there could have been social workers i’m a social worker i’m going to came on the scene.Because what people don’t understand about the radio families, first of all they’re an amazing family and you say that second a law, the police had her daughter’s house surrounded with her grandchildren in that house, we see what the police do when they surround homes, we see what the police doing that approach black and brown citizens. Why would she not want to record on her phone so that she can ensure that our daughters rights in our grandchildren’s rice would be protected should something happen that’s how that went on, so that officer could again and talk to that family use de escalation tactics right.In that situation would have looked totally different when you think about sheriff clayton and I don’t have anything personally against share click my respects your clique. So let me say that, but when I look at the work that he does through the cardinal group, one of the biggest things that I see in that module is the escalation. So you are flying across the country to talk about de escalation, but those tactics are not being used in your own home front. That is just ridiculous it is something that we need to pay attention to, and I believe it’s something that we, the people need to rise up and push back on still the great deals need us.
MH: Right i’m sorry what was that thing you said, the cardinal group or something that.
TD: Is the cardinal group, it is a training firm that, I believe, is was founded by share button and share pregnant goes across the country teaching, you know this module to other police officers and so yeah I just don’t get it, I don’t get how you can fly across the country, but the ones that really need the message and that are very in your reach right under your command and they carelessly take it or leave it that’s just beyond me and has he defended the officers that that we’re realizing. Oh yeah yeah they they definitely standing with the officers, I mean it’s very sad because everybody knows what happened, you know so I mean, I guess it’s at what point will we as a Community rise up in demand justice not just when stuff happens right cuz that that’s the thing cross the summer, everybody was mad because we were being killed left and right brutalized protesters were being brutalized and now you see things I know it’s a little cold, but it doesn’t mean we can’t 10 City Council meeting. It doesn’t mean that we can’t plan Commissioner meetings it doesn’t mean we’ve got a watch at every angle to make sure that our agenda is being pushed forward, because we want justice and the only way we can get it as if we stay at the table that’s right. So yeah talk to us about your agenda, I mean is, it seems like you have goals that are broader than reforming or defunding police.
MH: And you know tell us tell us what it is that you are advocating for and what it is that you’re advocating against them. And what kind of methods, if used.
TD: Okay um so when we talked about the mission statement earlier, we are a sound the alarm agency right, we are put a voice to this topic, or this pain, or this whatever it is right, so that is the crux of our agents, now we partner together and we work with.Other groups on bigger agenda items and we’re actually working with right now i’m as an agency to revamp and help revitalize the HR 7085. Which is a bill that was introduced by just done a mush he is Congress, he was Congress in Michigan and this was in qualified immunity right So this was a way that we can hold individuals accountable for these acts of misconduct and murders and fatality we’ve got to be able to hold folks accountable so that’s one thing that we’re working on with some other groups as well. Things that what was one of our top platforms instill is is wrongful convictions wrongful convictions are happening at an alarming rate and so what we found is that 48.9% of wrongful convictions are you to police police I, what do I say police misconduct prosecutors candor and so, because of that we have to end qualified immunity, so that we can hold these individuals accountable, but we also have to follow up with absolute immunity absolute immunity is where the criminal charges can be brought against these individuals, right now, these individuals are protected police, prosecutors judges, they are all protected and we don’t understand that, because each one of those seats belong to the people we put them in those. So how can they take and turn and terrorize the people and so, this is why we’ve got to come together and work on some of these things, and we also work with you and we work with us forming their voices around certain topics, so we have partnered we had partner with robuchon high school in dearborn heights two years in a row when Kobe first rolled in we were actually working with bellville high school because we need the voice of our youth see our youth right they will rise up. And, really, really, really challenged ideologies of their parents their grandparents on when it comes to racism, so we really need to help. Our youth form their voices, we also one of the first topics, be able to verbal abuse with us. Then the next year they wanted to do bullying, I wrote a short film about bullying and they acted it out, so these are just some of the creative forms that we have worked as an agency and as well we do protest, but we are not a protest route that is just one of the many creative forms. That we believe you can bring a voice to an injustice.yeah and.
MH: I definitely remember the summer, you had the or no, it was October, when it was that you had the Community conversation about racism.
TD: Yes, yes, so we had getting real about race back in October and basically that was to highlight the disparities and racism, when it pertains to housing unemployment education, the criminal justice system and healthcare, those are the five biggest barriers within our Community that that we really want to shed light on so that we can help curb or even in these disparities and bring about more fairness for black and brown people I hate saying black and Brown, though, because in white because, like we are not a box of crayons right but you know what I mean.
MH: yeah so what so is that Community conversation is that is that another have you done this before, is this the year something no we’ve done Community conversations before that was the first far from that may have been geared towards really breaking down the barriers in into disparities and race.
TD: we’ve done prop one we’ve done a prop one Community conversation, and when it came to marijuana be legalized and kind of had a ball, so that everyone can get their picture when they voted we’ve done community policing forums. We also personally myself i’m a creator of a bridging the gap between the Community and the police. That was actually and we a lot of another organization or another group to utilize our model and so actually was done here in Washington county by nate frazier and heart to hearts and so we’re going to be looking at bringing that back again because, in my opinion, right just really realistically, based on the Constitution. I don’t see where the police are going to not be around right um you know we can take away some of their powers like you know, even in other cities, they have been the funding, so all of those things can be done, but I don’t know if their existence will be able to be erased right So what does that mean we have to get ahead of this we don’t know can’t get ahead of it but we’ve got to take control of this where the police can start to understand that they are public servants and there is a certain level of respect and and compassion and empathy that they should have towards the Community and what does that look like you know what is a Community meet from these policing agencies, you know, and you know, can there be resolved if not, then that needs to be said, as well, I mean just an open conversation about what’s going on, because everybody wants to tap dance around the truth it’s not going anywhere we’ve got to get to the bottom of it and start coming up with some proactive solutions so that we can end the way policing has brutalized so many African Americans.
MK: Right so you know one thing that Ann arbor has attempted just in the last couple years is this the oversight Commission the independent Community police oversight Commission and you know as that was being created, my understanding is that. There was a lot of debate about how much power that oversight Commission should have and in the end it it doesn’t seem like it came out with a lot of teeth. But i’m really curious what your thoughts are about the oversight Commission. It sounds like you have some hope for improving the relations between the Community and the police, as opposed to just saying enough with the police and so i’m curious if you if you think that the the oversight Commission has potential in that space or how you would like to see that work.
TD: Let me clarify because i’ve had enough of the police to now. Excuse me, I know we all here I don’t know if we get to pick that up.
MK: Oh that’s okay. it’s a podcast, we can say whatever we want.
TD: i’m like I said i’m just also in the like that, until something like that can happen right, we got to deal with what’s in the now I think it’s great to reimagine but while we’re reimagining, we have to be realistic and we can’t just let them do what the heck they want to do, while we figure out how we want things to be we’ve got to get in there and say no you’re going to stop doing this you’re going to stop doing that. And kind of lead the way and what we want to see in policing while it still does exist when it comes to the other you call it. Police oversight Commission and I love Dr Jackson, but they have purple, they’ve crippled it clap.Meaning that you know why, would you make a police oversight Commission that does not going to have subpoena power.
Like it would would good is that if they have to fight with these policing agencies to get the information that they need when they’re doing an investigation, so there are things that I believe needs to happen to make sure that.The oversight Commission or committee can work at its fullest potential.
MK: yeah right now the oversight.
MH: Right now, the oversight Commission doesn’t have any more power to get records them on a normal any old individual has, and I know that, like i’ve heard about events, you know that i’ve tried to put in a foia request, and you know Freedom of Information Act request, and I said hey, can you tell me more about this incident and the police always respond with Oh well, that wouldn’t that would hamper an ongoing investigation, so we can’t give it to you um I don’t know how to get information out of the police, I don’t I don’t think it can be done, and so, when our oversight Commission has only as much power as I do, which is apparently none.
MK: yeah.
TD: Well, good me, you know that’s The thing is that you can tell if people really want oversight and the way that they set it up to me, said that they really did all this.
MK: So you know one thing that I that I heard about the reason the oversight Commission is so limited has to do with the police Union contract and the there’s I think I think some of the issues with with qualified immunity are probably in there, too, that you mentioned earlier i’m really curious to hear more about about this bill that you’ve been working on to end qualified immunity, but I, I wonder if you’ve done any work in terms of pushing I don’t know when the next police Union contract is is up for renegotiation but if that’s some that’s an area where you’re where you’re working, because I think. My understanding is we’re not going to be able to get that kind of oversight if we don’t change these other things around it.
TD: yeah you are so right um I I really think that there’s going to be a strong push by the Community to get what is needed for the oversight committee that’s that’s it, because if they do not have the records that they need or the things that they need the tools that they need that there is the police are going to always work against them, and I believe that was just recently, a thing with the contract. So i’m not sure when it renewed again, but what I do know is that we have got to get Dr Jackson and her team some support more support kindness and, to be honest, I don’t know, maybe it’s even a Community conversation to expose the lack of support right because again they voted 15 but then they made it powerless So for me, you may as well, have not even done that you know, and it is an insight, in my opinion, to Dr Jackson and everybody on that team that is working higher, because if all they have is for your power that is not going to be enough to ensure that the police are doing that’s not oversight not oh.
MH: yeah I even you know I don’t know I mean I even wonder if oversight is going to be enough. I fall more on the defund the police type of situation that I think you know if the police have been acting this way since their inception, I don’t really understand what it’s going to change you know i’d say replace it with an institution that does what we want it to do instead.
TD: Well that’s a very valid point because I think I talked about this Judas in the black Messiah right um do this in the black Messiah shows the death of Fred Hampton and Mr Clark, and you know this is again what not in this ironically enough, they were murdered on my birthday mid December 4 in 1969 so about five years before I was born, but you know, when we look at the continuation of that we look at rosewood right the massacre and rolls which we look at the massacre and black Wall Street anytime there’s a large black movement anytime there’s anything about justice or anything like that, where the police are being challenged there’s always some type of separation that comes by way of them trying to dismantle the groups murdering black leaders and discrediting black leaders, you know it’s just a continuation, so when you look at all of that, like, I told you guys earlier, I think, before we came on. You know i’m a reformed person, but when I look at it and look at the structures, how can we reform, something that is so broken, I say this, all the time i’m a social right, you cannot build on a rickety foundation, you cannot. If the Foundation, as the Foundation has asked you need to dismantling, you need to break that old foundation down and build up a little concrete and you might even have to do a new face. Because, deep down you’re going to always have leaks, if you don’t do all these things that will manifest itself, so the only thing that that seems to remotely work, you know or excuse me not work is the continuum of what’s happening people trying to come together people trying to fly police police back somebody gets killed, I mean it’s just a vicious vicious cycle.And I don’t see you know, like I said after understanding what this movie represents it’s like, how can we reform on top of this type of mindset I just I don’t know and I don’t have an answer, I can see here pretending I have the answer. But it’s just something that i’m thinking about.
MH: Something that bothers me, too, is that it’s. Like I don’t know it kind of seems like you know, in June, when the when all the George floyd protests were happening like not only was that the only time that people cared about police brutality in general, the general populace, but like that seemed to also be the only time when the general populace cared about black people. It was just something that like people just kind of assume that police are going to be killing black people and that’s just an acceptable loss, you know. And so I want to know, like you know how to keep. How to keep these things in people’s you know in white people’s minds. When you know in between massive protests.
TD: whoa you just brought up something that we’re actively working on right now, how do we keep the fire burning. How do we keep the fire burning for justice, what happens is, and I say this with all due respect, some of our Caucasian siblings brothers, sisters have been able to look away it didn’t affect them and their families, it didn’t affect anyone in a 50 mile radius of very area so it’s not something that was looked at, but I believe and I apologize if this you know I can’t apologize that’s just who I am I believe that God strategically allowed the whole world. To be stopped, nobody could look away everybody witnessed this man murder for eight minutes and 46 seconds people’s children witnessed this man being murdered in front of our faces for eight minutes and 46 seconds, so it could a different kind of fire under US because people that have never looked at the situation they looked at and said all hail, not as a right now I know this name right and so people began to stand up, so what i’m telling people is we need you to keep that same energy. We need to understand that you walking away is a sacrifice of another black life us walking away is the perpetuation of racism and white supremacy us not doing anything not challenging and not pushing back means that were complicit. And these things fall right in our lap and so we’ve got to see to me, I feel like the only way to make changes is together.
MK: yeah right.
TD: we’ve got to be clear about the mission in the move forward as one.
MK: yeah.
MH: So you know here on the podcast one of our goals is to help people get informed so that they can get involved really locally, I think a lot of folks. In Ann arbor and especially over the last few years it’s been hard to look away from what’s going on on a national level that, like the national political landscape and now we’re trying to help people focus on our on our own community and what can we be doing here in our town.
MK: How like How can people who maybe have not gotten involved before what what can they do what can they start doing so that it becomes a regular practice of you know if it’s speaking up if it’s organizing, and so I wonder what you see as some really concrete things to be working on right now in Ann arbor and in washtenaw county or in the state of Michigan to.
TD: So one thing that I think is very important to focus that people are talking about the funding the fleet, do we even understand how much money goes to that sheriff’s office I mean it is cool they get a lot of money. mm hmm well you know how they are awarded that money by our Commissioners.
MK: Right.
TD: I watched not county Commissioners, so we need to be at those Commissioner meetings. Meaning why, why are the police getting money, why are we putting more money into healthcare why aren’t we putting more money into education, you know that is something that. It doesn’t even have to be about you know something that happened that’s just you know, they have to be about a murder or somebody being brutalized see this is thing we’ve got to get proactive. mm hmm. Right, we got to get proactive and less reactive right again that looks like go into those meetings that looks like organizing with other groups that have the same mission, you know. Especially around here and i’m just going to say it, it is so down territorial and it is ridiculous um it is you think you oh you just popped up on the scene protesting well we’ve already been doing it. Get. Over yourselves. mm hmm, it is not about any of us when it comes to this movement, nobody has a patent on Black liberation.Nobody patent on what justice true look.
MK: we arrive at that together.
TD: And so you know when I see some of these things, I say this is also a problem with why we’re so stagnant, because when we operate like that it is counterproductive to the movement. yeah I don’t care, my name is never anywhere, they could they don’t have to say survivor speak and I would prefer that they take the target on our back right but they don’t have the same provider speaking, they don’t have to say to say duck where because at the end of the day, all I wanted to say is just yeah All I want them to do is say here we’re gonna we’re.
MH: whoops I think.
TD: i’m not able to hear you right now.
MK: You cut out there for a second to say.
TD: We can fix this and post.
MH: yeah you’re saying you just want people to be talking about justice right and working together yeah you just.
TD: want to be talking about justice want to be talking about working together we can’t do this with all of the division. Division is what distracts us division is it just is very counterproductive, we have to lay down our egos and really take a look at the bigger picture you know what I mean, and if that means that i’m not at the front, I don’t care. That means that somebody else has met the punch they shouldn’t carry never about one person. yeah.
MK: Michelle you’re muted sorry.
MH: So you say you have been working with some groups. Can you tell us like what you know your success stories that you’ve been you’ve managed to work with some groups together on some projects can tell us about those groups and those projects.
TD: You know what honestly everybody that we’ve worked with has been amazing it’s just as i’ve been seeing this across the board right like, but I think.
MH: You know um.
TD: I believe that let’s see who’s a big for people’s campaign oh my gosh so amazing always on me and wash my town i’m. It cj.Is he cannot.
MH: He cannot say. yep see yeah she have been afraid house.
MK: So I see the interim.
TD: Sorry yeah yeah also in justice.
MH: interfaith Council or cancel just peace and justice, yes.
MK: that’s right.
TD: And yeah we’ve also worked with been the art. We worked with FC and I see, can I share we’ve worked with with work with a lot of different people, and you know again that’s just what it’s about for us is the relationship building i’m even bringing legislators, together with Community Members right um but it’s just about that relationship building.
MK: yeah I think Sorry, I think, to say that you, you cut out again for a second, but I was this is reminding me of a really good advice that I read recently that I think was originally attributed to Maryam Kaaba who is actually an analyst Annapolis yes she’s been working for a long time. But the the advice about for people who are new and how to get involved is to join a group that it’s you can’t you can’t do this work alone, the way to be effective, is to find a group to organize with, and so you just given us a list of of local groups that are doing this work and.
MH: we’re definitely going to drop links in the description.
MK: yeah we’re going to drop all those links in the in the show notes for the for this episode Oh, and we just got your we just got you back. So I don’t know I don’t know if there were more that you wanted to add to that list.
TD: There are so many groups i’m sorry I can’t name the law. But I know a lot my my brother’s keeper came together they were one of the ones that came to all these groups, we came together for getting real about race in October. So as well, my brother’s keeper washtenaw county. We had. I believe, even the city of Ann arbor partnered with us on this as well is feel township. I mean we just came together with everyone, and like I said that’s just what it is. Ah, look at our hair so.
MK: we’re recording this an audio so i’ll tell for that, for our listeners that i’m currently giving my my younger child her bedtime braid. So she’s she’s here with us on zoom at the moment. Would you like to say hi RON. You can say it, they can hear you hi.
MH: amy Hello nice to see you Oh, they can’t she can’t hear us right. it’s got headphones but anyway um yeah so yeah we’ll drop links to all those groups.
MH: Oh, I just remembered a thing. interfaith Council for Peace and Justice is having at some point and i’m gonna have to look up witnesses they having a meeting about alternatives to calling the police. So i’ll find that event link and drop it in the description.
TD: Oh yeah I did hear about that.
MH: Okay, but uh Maybe you can tell us about anything you have planned coming up.
TD: So right now, what we have planned coming up is a vacation.
MK: That sounds wonderful.
MH: Well we’ll just we’ll we’ll end racism, for you, while you’re on vacation and.
TD: Then you’ll come back and Thank you so amazing I would truly appreciate. You know self care, and this is one thing that I want to encourage. People on is this self care is extremely important when it comes to fighting for justice and you cannot pour everything out of yourself without restores without refreshing you know and so it’s always important, you know as actors or people that are working doing the work towards justice to remember to take time for yourself um so that’s what we’re actively working on tomorrow, through the 28th and will be on break. When we come back we’re going to actually having a protest march the 30th and it’s called the accountability project and it was called project accountability, and that is to get people’s minds for what we talked about earlier staying at the table holding individuals accountable. You know, we vote people in, and then we walk away until the next four years and it’s time to vote again. But we’ve got to keep eyes i’ll keep a watch what’s going on, like nobody hire somebody may and walks away like you know that’s your company, as they do that right, so you know we have to make sure that we stay abreast of what’s going on legislatively, and so we want to bring people together and encourage that and we have to support pledges that we’re going to say as a community about how will be accountable and then we’re offering a pledge of accountability for our legislators as well to be accountable to the people coming in April we’re having our annual wrongful conviction summit where we bring the families of those that are wrongly incarcerated together to legislators and to love to hear their story, so that, again, we can start to work towards ending these type of injustice, so we got a lot of things on the horizon, as well as trying to work with that building I mentioned HR 7085, let me just be clear. That was already established, we have nothing to do with that i’m at this point in time, it is squashed and we just believe that that bill needs to be resurrected and so we’re working with some legislators about how we can go about doing that.
MK: I heard this morning, actually, at a meeting of the Ann arbor Dems I heard crystal dupree talking about the breathe Act, which I think is it’s I don’t know if it includes qualified immunity, but it covers some I think some other police policing reforms at the national level, and I know she was interested in bringing it to Michigan as well um and i’m gonna look into other those there’s any connection between those two things, or if there’s any overlap.
TD: I would love to hear more about that.
MK: um yeah I don’t I don’t remember the details, but I think it’s a it’s a it’s a bunch of different reforms that I think are intended to reduce police violence against black and brown communities that’s my that’s my understanding.
TD: As a matter of fact, I do see that, and you are why I think crystal has something posted on her page within that regard as well, if you want to go to go see is Christian 3am I believe she also may have had it on her pocket.
MK: Great yeah so i’ll go find that and see if there’s more that we can share with our listeners through on their website um were there any other things that you that are coming up that you wanted to share with us.
TD: City Council level. Um I have never seen a group of individuals do what they do. Say that some of the things that are said some of the action the motions and things of that nature um it just put a lot of confusion and I see that there was some type of rule that will try to be put in place about you know public speaking and just kind of further silence the voice of the people, and so I don’t think it past. But the fact that that that would even be introduced. The fact that we’re you just saying that we want racial equity like yeah what’s so bad about that we’re coming to you challenging you about your ideologies, I mean that no chickens allowed and and just all of these things, and they were able to say oh that was just a joke. yeah no i’m not funny.
MH: you’re talking about chicken gate.
TD: yeah yeah yeah and they were just able to dismiss it as a joke, and everybody just moved on like that was okay that’s not okay.
MK: No that’s not.
TD: That we elect and putting these positions would just demean and disrespect those that are not on the same level financially as themselves. And for me, I just want to encourage the citizens of Ann arbor to just hold these individuals accountable if you if you don’t understand that your silence makes you a part of the problem. I don’t know how else to explain that to you yeah, but if you continue to vote me people in office, over and over and over again, then you are a part of perpetuated of racism and white supremacy and I need you to sit with that I need you to feel that and hear that. Now, so that you can get mad at say who you think you are no so you can allow it to rest in your spirit and then maybe you understand how wrong it is and raise up and use your voices and do something about it because it’s not okay it’s not okay that people can afford to working in arbor and build up that the economy and I ever but they can’t afford to live there it’s totally I don’t even I don’t even know what to call it, but I know that they are in a position now as as even with the Mayor and the Council to do some things that have never been done before. And it’s my hope that we, the people will continue to push back and challenge them and keep them guided in the right direction, so that there can be about fairness and justice for all individuals.
MH: I wanted to catch our listeners up on a little bit of that because you said some things that they might have might not have heard about you’re talking about chicken gate there was an incident where on Facebook, there were some of the city council members were on a Facebook group a public Facebook group, and they were talking about an ordinance of proposed ordinance allowing people to keep chickens in the backyard and they were changing that in some way and some member of the public started a joke comparing. The chicken situation with an arborist housing situation, and then a bunch of the city council members jumped in to continue the joke, and express appreciation for the joke and there were many members of the Community were not happy about that, because they thought that they didn’t like being compared to animals and they didn’t. It wasn’t taking. The housing situation seriously enough.
MK: yeah it wasn’t it wasn’t a good joke it wasn’t it wasn’t it.
MH: wasn’t at all. that’s right.
TD: i’m trying to figure out how they call it a joke like oh Oh, it was just Parada every Sunday right nothing you know, no, no, no, no, no, the fact that you even in your mind even think that that’s okay great hi no that’s not a pro.
MH: The other thing you were talking about was the I think there was a there was a situation where some people were calling in and to City Council meetings saying things they didn’t like and.
MK: Things the Council members in like.
MH: The Council members didn’t like and the Council members shouted one of the one of the people down and make them stop talking and then later on.Somebody called in and use the F word, and so, then the city council members were talking about how we can silence and sensor our public speakers more that never actually got to the being a resolution that the City Council could vote on a they talked about it. They ended up passing rules for how Council members talk to each other and we’ll see where that goes, because that was that was voted on at a meeting a couple of weeks ago. um it’s being brought back for reconsideration at the Tuesday February 16 meeting but y’all are hearing this episode after that, because of the times we recorded in The Times we’re broadcasting, so I don’t know what happened to that.
TD: Anyway, that’s the scituate just catching up the reading.
MH: What that.
TD: yeah my proper bringing it up, I just tell people that like these are the type of things that go on, when we don’t pay attention you know I mean like there’s some people might not even understand. You know what’s happening, I mean, even in that that shame, because I think I spoke first and then there was somebody that came behind me who they swear that i’m working with this guy and i’m like are you crazy i’m even.
MH: here.
TD: Members suck that Mr open and I, are you serious like I said why you sound like a fifth grader that’s a safe say something like that was kids were watching you sell your your daughter just split up to the next to you right there, what about his daughter or son or what. Night Is this what we really want to portray for our kids know.
MH: And that was a Council member saying that that’s a Council member saying suck this to a member of the public, which is very different situation from if a member of the public, so that, to a Council member. Right yeah um yeah, this is why we encourage people to pay attention to what’s going on the city council.
TD: Exactly yeah.
MH: So yeah keep up Keep it up, and you know we’ve heard some we’ve heard some other good groups to work with and some other actions to get involved in. Oh, I wanted to talk about for a second I wanted to talk about because we’re talking about holding Council members and so forth, accountable for things.I remember, there was a situation over the summer, with the Mayor of ypsilanti i’m saying and doing racist things, and then the public put enough pressure on that on that mayor that she was able to see actually stepped down from her position so. He was survivor speak involved in that at all, and I just thought either way, I just wanted to say, like. Holding people holding holding Council members accountable is something that can work.
TD: Yes, it’s something they can work in this display and when you come we come together, so what happened was I had gotten information about the mayor right and I kind of just was sitting on it for other things ratios and I was going to go to city to city council meeting and just didn’t do that actually did before the videos and just didn’t do that, and yet, and so, then i’m Annie somerville actually brought something up at a Council meeting and then that next.
MH: Week it’s one ypsilanti city council members.
TD: Say kitchen, yes, yes, and so next week I know I should have said that I apologize um but that next week they were at a protest that was downtown ypsilanti and so it was like you know what no less she gotta go you’re not I mean stop Oh, we can there were some other groups that were there as well tested and
MH: we’re not we’re not able to hear.
TD: And went to her house.
MH: OK OK back.
TD: Oh, my God i’m so sorry. Other groups went to her house afterwards. After we got our protest of other groups went to her house.
MH: For the to the House of the Mayor of ypsilanti.
TD: Yes and next thing you know she retired next month, she actually she resigned that next morning I believe was 9am that morning so I mentioned, she all the city council members spoke against her as well, asking her to resign so again you have pressure from the people pressure from the city council, I mean that’s what it looks like when everybody can come together all hands on deck to really do something.
MH: wrong. I seem to remember another one of the things that was a pressure point for her was that a bunch of the city council members said that they were going to start boycotting committee meetings and stuff like that, and so that. There wouldn’t be quorum, and so the City Council was not going to have the ability to run meetings until that person resigned and resigned.
TD: i’m really getting it just.
MH: Right. So that’s I guess that’s what I would tell to our listeners stay involved put the weight on.
MK: yeah I think that’s that’s really what i’m taking away from everything you’ve said today today is that it’s important to continue to pay attention and continue speaking up even when there’s nothing that specific that you’re reacting to, but this idea of really being proactive and showing up showing up to the meetings joining a group and and really continuing to to fight even even when nobody’s paying attention.
TD: Yes, you know one last thing.
MK: jealous ideologies of.
TD: Your loved ones, your family your friends like we’ve all been there at the table and little jokes being said and things that we know aren’t right and we just walk away, and there is no don’t walk away anymore. Tell them, that is not right you’re not going to stand for it don’t allow it on your watch because that makes you complicit as well, I don’t care if it is your family member that should give you the courage to stand up, even more.
MK: Yeah that’s an excellent point.
MH: Well, thanks so much for joining us we’ve run out of time at this point and.
TD: You even gave voice for the people.
MH: Thanks yeah.
MH: So yeah this was just a duckworth of survivors speak and thanks for listening to Ann arbor af we are co hosts MK and myself, Michelle Hughes, thanks to our producer Jared malice thing and for questions about this podcast or ideas for future episodes you can email us at Ann arbor af pod@gmail.com get involved and get informed then get involved it’s your city and we’re going to drop links in the description to all of those organizations and events that were mentioned here, thank you very much.
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